Email July 2004
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 14:09:51 -0700
Subject: experiences before Nirvana On the Jhanas list earlier in June, MP wrote:
> Hello Ramon:
> Under FILES - "The world Beyond" was written about Buddha's early
> practices of Jhanas before he attains the Enlightenment.
Thank you for the pointer. I read the article with interest.
The following paragraph interested me:
"Self-torture was one kind of practice undertaken by recluses at that time.
It ranged from mild through moderate to extreme, death-defying austerities
beyond the ability of ordinary mean. "Death-defying" means that they
required clenching of the teeth, holding the breath and fasting."
What is meant by 'they required clenching of the teeth"?
Is this considered a 'bandha,' as in yoga's mulabandha?
I just tried it for a few minutes, and it seems to lower the pitch
of the nadam current I listen to, and slow the pulsation in it.
Also I prefer to do it with a smile. Also, if I "OM," the
resonance goes through all the bones at a much higher amplitude.
"Grin and bear it" - the phrase might be interpreted as
"Smile and clench the teeth."
Personally, I find holding the tip of the tongue between the teeth
and pulling back on it more energizing. But I intend to research
the teeth-clench bandha more thoroughly.
"They who wonder without attachment to thought while wandering are not necessarily lost."
I imagine that the Buddha was quite familiar with all the plant
teachers of his era, including hashish, bhang, perhaps even soma.
I'm also positive that he had practiced all the more advanced
yogic techniques such as the bandhas and mudras, the kechari
and sambhavi especially. Some of these may have been 'taken for
granted' in the circles of devotees in which he moved, and he
may not have felt it necessary to elaborate on them. Or perhaps
he DID elaborate and these particular teachings were excised
later by a more 'puritanical' generation? This reminds me of
something I may already have posted here for comment last week
(a quote from Stuart Sovatksy's excellent book, "Words from the
The quote started:
"The shamanic or dionysian yoga and its bond with mystical phenomenology
maintained in the living moment ... arose and then fell into evermore
secularized, scriptural fundamentalisms.
The sequence of dionysian yoga's "fall" from dionysian-soteriological time
and in-the-moment narrative utterances into the apollonian mundane time and
its "formalized narratives and "histories of events" is as follows:
(see http://www.raysender.com/ssovatsky.html for the complete quote)
On the assumption that the Buddha actually taught "mystical phenomenology
maintained in the living moment," and that his teachings have been
watered-down, changed, misinterpreted, etc, over the millennia and
finally cast in Apollonian concrete, I've been staying off of
all particular paths (to let the original turf recover?), although
I do check out various traditions (advaita, bhakti, surya yogas as
well as kundalini and Shaivite...).
(You can read further on my eight-legged rambles at
I also labor under the delusion (intuition?) that Mother never
intended the achievement of Nirvana to take years of effort
and hours of meditation. For this reason I've been, amongst
other things, studying animals and copying some of their
habits, inasmuch as they already live more in the the NOW
than most of us humans.
For example, I've been gradually perfecting a purr that goes as follows:
(please forgive if I am repeating myself with this, but of all the
various exercises I've come across, this seems the most accessible
and most quickly rewarding)
Start this LOUD and then gradually more quiet once it's working.
On the INHALE: SNORE, rattling the septum (HONGGGGGGGG)
On the EXHALE: GARGLE, emphasizing the French 'R" in the back of the throat.
If you SMILE WIDELY whilst doing this, you can make both sounds without
changing mouth/tongue/palate position, and also place the sound
deeper in your chest. As deep in the chest as possible is good.
Inasmuch as I view the tongue as the uppermost petal of the
flower of the heart, let's now improve the SMILE by sticking
the tongue out towards the chin in the so-called LION Pose.
INHALE: now a VERY lion-esque SNARL is quite possible, and very satisfying.
I suggest trying about thirty of these to see if perhaps
they might dissolve you into a higher jhana absorption.
With this note, I'm bidding you all a very fond adieu. I'm
cutting way back on my Internet list readings because I'm
concentrating on the excellent results I'm achieving with the
practice outlined here, as well as other exercises you can read
about on my website.
Please feel free to communicate with me via e-mail if you have
comments or questions.
>> Here's a shortcut to ponder:
>> 1) Every night in deep sleep we dissolve into that Ocean of Self some call
On 7/8/04 5:49 AM, "G" replied:
> Every moment of our existence we are, and ALWAYS are, the so-called
> "Ocean of Self." It's here, it's now, it's everyone.
R: OKAY, BUT DO YOU CLAIM TO BE STABLE IN THAT STATE WHILE AWAKE? SOMETIMES
REFERRED TO AS "SAHAJA SAMADHI?"
>> 2) "Enlightenment" -- or whatever less overused equivalent word you care to
>> use -- basically consists of absorption into that same Ocean of Self but
>> without losing consciousness.
> Enlightenment is the mind being present when Self recognizes Itself
> in the context of an individual life.
I THINK THAT'S JUST WHAT I SAID IN ANOTHER WAY?
> There is nothing to be absorbed into.
R:IF YOUR AWAKE AND SLEEP AND DREAM STATES HAVE MERGED, YOU ARE CORRECT.
G:> We are *THAT*, right now, and always.
R: CORRECT. BUT CAN YOUR AWARENESS ABIDE IN THAT, OR IS IT JUST A
VERBALIZATION? AND IF YOU CAN ABIDE, CAN YOU RELATE YOUR ABIDING TO, FOR
EXAMPLE, THE CLASSICAL EIGHT ABSORPTION STATES (JHANAS) OF VIPASSANA?
R: >> Okay, some higher states of Samadhi seem to
>> include loss of consciousness of one's surroundings and lesser self, but
>> for the time being let's just talk about 'Deep Down in the Delta Wave'
>> while still aware of the enormous currents of energies rushing around
G: > "Energies" have as much to do with enlightenment as my dog's ass.
R: SOME SAY YES, SOME SAY NO. THE KUNDALINI YOGIS ARE QUITE INTERESTED IN
ENERGIES, NICHT WAHR? SO ARE THE QI GONG FOLKS. ENERGIES COME IN
SUBTLER AND SUBTLER ENVELOPES, BUT I LIKE TO MAKE SURE I'M INVITING
THE PHYSICAL FORM TO PARTAKE OF THE BANQUET.
G: > The "one" being aware of things is the one seeming to get in the way
> of knowing yourself as 'this'.
R: THERE'S A LOT OF ADVAITA TALK GOING AROUND, BUT I WONDER IF MOST OF IT
IS JUST HOT AIR. PERSONALLY I PREFER TO KNOW WHETHER THE DOG CAN HUNT OR
NOT, AND HERE I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHICH PARTICULAR SELF I'M REPLYING TO.
HOWEVER, EVEN THE SAINTED FOUNDER OF ADVAITA, ADI SHANKARA, SPENT HIS LAST
YEARS SINGING LOVE SONGS TO THE MOTHER GODDESS. I THINK I'LL DO THE SAME.
The I Amrita Mega Mama Song
" There's Amrita-Mega-Mama in the sky, honey-pie!
There's Amrita-Mega-Mama in the sky, honey-pie!
Mega Mama's in the sky,
And she's there for you and I
So just smile and snuggle up, honey-pie!"
Anybody know Verse Two?
R: >> 3) The challenge then becomes: how to achieve absorption while maintaining
G: > Absorption cannot be achieved by the illusory individual who will
> be rendered nonexistent by it.
R: YES, BUT SOMEWHAT NO. ONCE NONEXISTENT, IT'S VERY PLEASANT TO DRIFT BACK
DOWN INTO A FORM AND ALLOW 'THAT' TO EXPERIENCE SELFITUDE WITHIN A FORM. I
THINK THIS IS WHAT MASTER AZIZ KRISTOF MEANS BY GOING BEYOND THE TRADITIONAL
ENLIGHTENMENT MAPS TO 'the ME' (his upper case).
Allow me a brief quote (Lord, I hope this chat is not boring everyone
else on this list!):
'Beyond Consciousness' by Aziz Kristof
Guidance made further prophecy about our next shift, into the State Beyond
Polarities. There was supposed to be a state even beyond Awakening to Me,
where the Soul fully meets the Beloved. (HELLO, ADI SHANKARA! - R) Guidance
said that Osho and Trungpa reached this state at the end of their lives and
even though they could not understand its meaning, they lived it. In order
to reach such a state, one foot has to be in the Absolute and the other foot
in the Divine Dimension. Sufi masters get there easier. Rumi was, for
instance, in that exalted state. I asked Guidance: 'is it in the realm of
Me?' Guidance remained silent for a long time and answered: "It is not for
us to tell this...but yes, Aziz, it is in the dimension of Me..."
G: >There is nowhere to go, and nothing,
> including absorption, needs to happen. There is nothing an individual
> can do to foster enlightenment. However, the individual can do things
> which *appear* to lead toward enlightenment, like meditating, etc.
R: THIS IS ALL JUST WORD PLAY AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED. IF YOU PREFER TO DO
NOTHING TO BE NOTHING, THAT'S GREAT. I PREFER TO DEVOTE MYSELF TO A NATURAL
AND EASY METHOD TO RAISE MY BLISS TOLERANCE TO THE POINT THAT I HAVE TO BEG
HER TO TURN THE WATERFALL OF RADIANCE DOWN JUST A TEENSY BIT (SMILE). ONCE
I'M A-SWIM IN THOSE DELICIOUS TREATS SHE BESTOWS, I FRANKLY DON'T GIVE A
RAT'S WHISKER IF I'M STILL CAUGHT UP IN DELUSION OR NOT.
G: > IOW, it doesn't hurt to meditate, but don't expect anything like
> enlightenment. Be happy with a calmer mind and let realization
> come to you.
R: I AGREE THAT SURRENDER AND LETTING GO, RELAXING, ARE WHAT OPEN US TO THE
DESCENT OF GRACE. BUT I ALSO THINK THERE'S A BALANCE BETWEEN EFFORT AND
EFFORTLESSNESS - THE INHALE AND EXHALE, IF YOU WISH.
R: >> 4) Towards this end, I've been investigating copying what occurs with the
>> breath in deep sleep, namely SNORING.
>> On the inhale: snore until your septum rattles
>> On the exhale: gargle a French "r"
>> I can't do twenty of these without all lateral tensions in my body
>> dissolving so that my normal speaking voice resonates all
>> the way out to my fingertips and toes. I figure this must mean that
>> I've dissolved all lateral tensions of the sort W. Reich called armouring.
>> If I do this exercise first thing upon awakening in the A.M., it puts
>> me back in the sleep bliss state - truly!
>> Try it - you'll like it.
G: > Sounds peachy, but it has as much to do with enlightenment as
> my dog's ass.
R: CHECKING MY CAIRN TERRIER'S SPHINCTER, I NOTICE THAT IT PROTRUDES WHEN HE
BARKS. HEY! GOOD IDEA! I SHOULD "BREATHE FROM MY ASSHOLE!" THANKS!
LAST NIGHT I MANAGED TO GET THE SNORE/GARGLE DOWN INTO MY HEART CHAKRA,
CLOSE TO THE SORT OF PURRING SOUND THAT OUR FELINE FRIENDS MAKE. OHMYGOD,
TOTAL ABSOLUTE HEAVEN! IF THIS ISN'T REALIZATION, THEN WHAT DO I CARE?
WELL, ACTUALLY, I DID ADD A FINAL NOTE:
"Perhaps the final insight in these scribbles involves what I've named 'the
backbeat breath.' This involves retarding the relaxed breath just very
slightly - snoring on the 'backbeat,' so to speak. The reason this is
interesting is because the attention automatically fixes itself on the
breath this way, as if the mind is saying, 'Oh, something is going on with
the breath. I should pay attention to where it's arising.' With the mind
thus preoccupied, concentration is easily achieved, leading to deep
Bowing to your imminent Buddhahood, with some very LOUD SNORES
of UNDERSTANDING, and
Always seated fat and sassy on Hathor-Eesees-Aditi's Lap,
For a closer look at my frolic in the meadows of Mt. Meru:
Ode to This by Josie
--- In GuruRatings@yahoogroups.com, "josie kane"
i have no onions, or pearls, or blue pearls,
no artificial sweeteners, no fancy This or That,
no cat in the hat, no bright light around me,
no following in india, no retreat house in costa rica,
no american ashram, no golden temple,
no little white church, no flowing gowns,
no stones in a circle or photos of clowns
i don't have rocks from special mountains,
got no inner circle, no levels or rungs,
no superman here, nor spidy either,
no Blessings, no Glories, (can't deny Grace)
don't balance chakras, don't count my beads,
i hate wake up calls, but often say please,
no snakes or ropes by this computer,
no grokking, no being, i don't be, i ain't here now,
i definitely don't love myself, in the way that i "should",
seen too many hearts dotting i's
i don't talk to fairies, i don't channel lizards,
i have seen people awake, sleeping and dead
i have no idea "what is" or "what isn't",
threw the stars and moons out, no more cds with waves,
unplugged the zen clock that awoke me,
sold my encyclopedias of goddesses, angels and Eygypt
sometimes i still expected a miracle or two,
i kept my eyes open at satsang, i didn't sing along at church,
i didn't focus on what the buddhist monk said i "should",
i didn't do those affirmations, i didn't create more positive
i didn't leave screaming from a well-known teacher's talk,
my self-control appears pretty amazing till you know it's not me,
i didn't throw my water bottle at the girl with the head,
i didn't yell at that one guy "just shut up, please shut up"
luckily i realize i'm just not that wise
so even when they tell me i don't exist,
i just close my eyes
i've got no petals today, i don't have a stem, i've got no
i 'm definitely not this, and probably not that,
i still hate laundry, i never liked carrying water,
chopping wood might be ok if i felt better with an axe,
the cushions i never sat on are at the back of my closet,
i don't have cool mediation shawls, i don't have a better teacher,
i don't qualify for the intensive for repeating intensivites,
i don't do the work, i don't care if they think it's true,
i don't sink alleluia, i don't repeatedly chant.
i don't light sticks, ring special bells, my crystals got chipped,
forgot there used to be tarot, medicine, animal cards and runes,
(but the truth is when i heard a guru died i felt very sad),
public tv haunts me when i surf by, why, why why i think,
is this one man repeating his sappy spiritual mumbo jumbo,
how good white guys with good thoughts get rich and are holy
but he doesn't make me drink, and he doesn't make me think
i'm done signing emails with peace, well just for today,
or with love, light and laughter, come what ever may
i don't claim a dark side, a shadow, or demons,
no light body, nor black hole, i've got no inside at all,
i don't love others the way i love myself, and
i've seen the martyr in kindness, expecting reward
i'm not a sheep, goose or cow, just plain human if that,
i don't think i'm a lemming though i do watch the news,
& it might be argued we're heading over the edge
i jumped long ago, i can't handle drugs,
sometimes the world is even more than enough,
i don't want "it", i don't get it, a while back, i gave it away,
i've had it, i've read it, i've blissed it and resisted it,
i've got no path, nor a road, no cave or a river,
forget the gates too, gateless or not, open or shut
i don't evolve in how to's, steps, or formulas,
since all numbers are my favorite i refuse to pick any,
i paint outside the lines, on the floor and the grass,
i don't have any powers of now, or of then, just because,
i could tell you what might happen but i doubt that you'd like it,
nothing is perfect, and i could say i truly love nothing, or not,
and though i don't get paid for nothing, i do it anyway
and i usually say nothing, until i don't
i'm not going to hug everybody, maybe shake hands,
i might win staring contests, so what, i don't try,
i'm definitely not responsible unless it was all my fault,
even then i'll probably argue it out,
the simplest of how are you's and it all pours out,
they tell me what's going on, it appears that i care,
sometimes depending, i just couldn't care less,
but i'd be lying if i said that was absolutely true,
& if you're reading this, of course, i didn't mean You.
i'm not sleeping or dreaming, i'm sitting this one out,
i'm not really me, even at the best of my times,
for i rarely feel like staying just in the mind,
i can speak no final truth, not of emptiness or fullness,
which ultimately and only, brings me to This.
Last night I investigated the snore further. Finally got to a place where I could resonate the snore from deep
in my chest - absolute heart delight!
A friend told me last weekend that his MD explained that a cure
for the tachycardia moments he had was to 'bear down' as when one's taking
a shit. I found by bearing down slightly I could snore on the exhale at
the same muscular 'setting' as for the inhale. No change of mouth required,
although keeping a smile helped settle the sound into a soft purr. Now I'm
trying to figure out how the tongue fits into all this. Right now the best
seems to be to hold the tip of the tongue between the teeth.
The snore turned into HAHRRRR on the exhale and the snore added THOR
for evoking the goddess HATHOR. I then received initiation into the
Crown of Hathor by adding the sambavhi mudra - or so it seemed!
Investigating further, into a HAW-GAW (Hathor gradually morphing into
AL-LAH) I could also see how ISIS (EE-SEES) morphed into Jeezis (Jesus).
I've always thought that this pronunciation of Yeshua acutally evoked
the Egyptian sky goddess. 'HATHOR-ALLAH' was a heart mantram while EE-SEEES
opens the chakra in the back of the upper part of the head - perhaps the
real crown chakra. It seemed to me that there was an ancient rivlary between
the two goddesses (heart and head) that was then taken to the AL-LAH /
GEE-ZIS rivalry. (It's the head! No, it's the heart!) Hathor, the great cow
goddess of art and inspiration, seems more ancient - or at least worshipped
This whole experience led to the 'GHEE-GHEE' titter mantram, which I've
always liked very much also. There was a kind of 'evolution' of the
syllables that went OM to SNORE to HATHOR (AL-LAH) to EE-SEES (GEE-SEES)
with tongue out for the 'HAHRR'. Adding a sigh also improved things
and moved to an investigation of the "AWE" mantram, AWE as loving regard.
At this point I overwrote my pages upside-down. This is an ongoing problem
with note-taking in the dark. I've tried various size pages and notebooks,
and have had best results with stenographer's pads used sideways, with the
spiral giving me a bit of a guide for going down the page.
Perhaps the final insight in these scribbles involves what I've named 'the
backbeat breath.' This involves retarding the relaxed breath just very
slightly - breathing on the 'backbeat,' so to speak. The reason this is
interesting is because the attention automatically fixes itself on the
breath this way, as if the mind is saying, "Oh, something is going on with
the breath. I should pay attention to it." With the mind thus occupied,
concentration is easily achieved, leading to deep meditation.
Excuse me for rattling on this way, but I thought some of this might
resonate for you.
Un Abrazo Fuerte,
Email July 26 2004
Noting your last name, I wonder if you have explored
It's my favorite meditation mantram...
Your start by SNORING on the inhale, and GARGLING
a French "R" on the exhale, and gradually moving both
sounds into the chest. Ultimately you're able to flutter
your heart chakra doing this.
More info than you'd care to have available at:
Always Under the Waterfall of Her Blessings,
-=-=-=-= Email july 31 2004
> These are some of the questions that come to my mind, and are
> becoming increasingly important:
> > "What is really happening"?
> > "What really matters"?
> > "To what shall I devote my attention, time, energy, talents,
> resources, and potential"?
> > "What Matters"?
I guess for me it all comes down to something I read recently from a
Buddhist teacher somewhere, but I've also read a number of times
"The gift we are given to incarnate as a human is very rare and
sought-after, because only in this type of form is it possible to
to discover the answer to this kind of question. (Actually, I'm
not sure I completely agree with this, but never mind)."
There's similar advice in the Old Testament: "Remember thy Creator in the
days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh
when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them."--Eccl. 12:1.
Comment: The meaning is, "Don't wait until you're old and sick
or undergoing unbearable pain and/or suffering to decide to
find the answer to your most meaningful question."
Anyway, my humble advice is to put on the very tip-top of
your 'To Do' list some sort of daily type of meditation / spiritual
practice that is immediately blissful. Suggested places to look:
'wet' Vipassana list
Advanced Yoga Practices
If nothing else, at least when you wake up, SNORE while awake one
hundred times... or if you prefer, learn to PURR....
With a WIDE SMILE, TEETH TOGETHER:
Inhale: HONGGGGG (rattling the septum in a good snore)
Exhale: KUHRRR (gargling with a French "R")
(if you can vibrate the tongue and lips and palate on the exhale,
all the better. Otherwise, ponder gargling "UHRR" while saying
KEEP SMILING THROUGHOUT
If you can learn to subvocalize this, you can do it in public and
not get locked up. (smile)